011: Ryan Dillon | Supporting Trans & Queer Youth

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{Person speaking}

“Welcome to Sex Positive Families where parents, caring adults, and advocates come to grow and learn about sexual health in a supportive community. I’m your host, and the founder of SPF, Melissa Carnagey. Join me, and special guests, as we dive into the art of sex-positive parenting. Together, we will shake the shame and trash the taboos to strengthen sexual health talks with the children in our lives. Thank you so much for joining us!”

{Same Person Speaking} 

“Hi families, in today’s episode we dive into the gender spectrum exploring how parents and caring adults can support transgender youth. I chat with Ryan Dillon, a Licensed Professional Counselor in private practice at Pride Counseling Austin who specializes in working with Trans, LGBTQ+ youth and their families. Ryan offers an empathetic safe space for folx to explore their identities and also teaches comprehensive sex ed classes to middle school age students with an organization and curriculum called, Unhushed. This episode offers empowering perspectives on how we can support gender identity and expression for the children in our lives. Let’s have a listen.”

M.C.: “Hi Ryan it is amazing to have you on the SPF podcast. How are you?

Ryan Dillon: “I’m doing well. Thank you for having me!”

M.C.: “Thank you so much. We are excited to learn from you and to get us started; what has your journey been to the work that you’re doing now?”

R.D.: “Of course! I grew up in a very accepting family, and I feel very privileged to have done that. I had parents that were always encouraging when I wanted to express my selves in something that was out of societal norms, which happened quite a bit since I was a very expressive young child and then a very, let’s say, handful as a teenager. And I was always expressing myself very feminine and wearing traditional women’s clothing, and not once did they bat an eye at it. It set me up for a lot of confidence going forward, and when I say confidence I don’t mean like chest puffed up being able to walk into a room being able to speak to anybody. I’m very much an introvert, but it was confident on the inside is more of what I mean. I had a really good sense of who I was, and when it was time for me to come out to my parents, I felt very confident in doing so and sitting my parents down and telling them that I was gay was extremely easy. I mean, I have the type of parents that I was like, “Mom, Dad, I’m gay,” and my dad says, “Okay, tell us when you start having sex so we can make sure you’re safe.” 

M.C.: “Awe, yeah.” 

R.D.: “So I had a very sex-positive family from the start and very gender positive parents as well.  And getting older and growing up in southern Kentucky was hard.”

M.C.: “mmm…I bet.”

R.C.: “Yeah a lot of southern Kentucky is more afraid and nervous about things they don’t understand and being able to express that, threw a lot of people off. And more often than not it did put me in some dangerous situations, but I always knew I had a support system with my friends and parents who I knew I could always turn to; and like I said I was always very privileged with that. I got older. I went to college. Got out of Southern Kentucky, which was nice. Kinda the more traditional college story where you got in, you’re going through four years and then you get close to your senior year and you’re like, “What am I gonna do with the rest of my life? And I was a communications bachelor’s degree. I kinda stumbled on counseling and I fell in love with it. I did my internship during school in a very southern Kentucky town called Elizabethtown, and if anyone has ever seen the Orlando Bloom movie, uhm that’s a lie it doesn’t look anything like that.”

M.C.: [Laughter] “Don’t believe the lies!”

R.D.: “Yeah, that’s rose-colored glasses. It does not look like that! But I had this amazing supervisor who they were like, “Who do you not want to work with?” And I was like, “teenagers,” and they were like, “great you’re gonna work with teenagers!” and I can confidently say the rest is history. I primarily work with teenagers now. I love the population. I love working with queer youth and young adults. It’s fantastic. I became known for seeing trans and non-binary youth in Kentucky and figuring out that in a very small, conservative community that it’s very much needed because there is not education around even when parents wanted to be accepting. It was difficult for them to be accepting because there was nothing around them kind of helping them. There were no resources. It’s not like in a city like Austin where you can go down the street and find a lot of organizations.”

M.C.:樂威壯
t: 400;”> “Right.”

R.D.: “So they wanted to be accepting, but it came across as a whole lot of microaggressions to their children. And seeing how that affects children in the long run, that even if one day their parents become accepting it’s really hard to let go of things your parents have said in the past. So I set on the professional journey of helping queer youth and young adults, and not just them but also their parents. And giving the parents resources they need to create a better family system for their children. So that’s kinda how I got to where I am today.”

M.C.: “Wow, that is amazing your path informed your ability to be able to then serve others. You mentioned the word microaggressions, can you help us understand for anyone that may not understand what that means?”

R.D.: “Yeah, of course! In the sense that I mean it with working with transgender and non-binary youth, it’s when parents come in and they really don’t understand what they are saying. Like they will come in and they’ll say things like, “They’re too young. They don’t know who they are,” or “It’s just a phase.” Things that kind of chip away at their kid’s personality or their sense of being. It’s those things that kinda get lodged into the back of your head. It’s sometimes easier to get over the big things people say to you, like the things that people need to say to you. A lot of the time it can take a lot of work but it can be easier to get over that. But if you have someone close to your heart like a family or a close friend who says things like, “oh it’s a phase,” or “oh you’re too young you don’t know what you’re talking about,” that can get lodged in your head. And I work with a lot of clients who even after their parents become accepting and I’ve worked with them on language, and teens and the youth still have issues with wanting to talk to their parents, because that’s lodged into their minds, “they’re not going to take me seriously. I’m just a teenager. Why would they take me seriously?” 

M.C.: “What have you found to be some breakthrough moments in terms of the parents understanding that their young person is identifying as they are even if it’s not along the binary?”

R.D.: “I think it’s a lot of different things. A lot of it is breaking down the societal construct of gender because it’s so black and white, this or that and it’s hard for parents to step out of that. And with that societal construct of gender, we also have a societal construct of what it means to be a parent. Those two go hand-in-hand where they’re really fused together, along with like parenting and sex. There’s a lot that your “supposed to do” as a parent – quote on quote. And it’s bringing those walls down and being able to allow those parents to see that gender is vast, it’s a galaxy, and it’s beautiful! You just have to trust that your child knows who they are, and that is a big thing for parents to do, is that trusting in their child no matter how young they are. You have to trust your child that they have a sense of themselves and take them seriously, validate it and allow them to explore it. It’s very important to allow a child to explore their identity, and I’m finding a lot of parents become more comfortable and have breakthroughs when they allow their child to explore their identity. Whether it be a sexual orientation identity or a gender identity, and they see their child get happier and a lot of things they brought them initially to counseling for kinda elevates. It doesn’t make everything go away of course, but their child feeling safe at home to explore and that they not get in trouble, tends to bring parents onto the side that, “Okay, I can understand this,” and get more to accepting.”

M.C.: “That’s such a good point! Yeah, because at the core especially of healthy well-meaning parents are just that desire for your child to be happy to feel safe and it’s often the issues of our society that are the problem, not our children.”

R.D.: “Exactly, and as I try to tell all parents, the thing that children are trying to do the most are they’re craving to find a sense of belonging and self. And how do they fit within the family system, at school, and other societal constructs; they are trying to find where they belong and they need to have the ability to explore themselves. And that’s like when in teenagers, I try to tell parents that it’s normal for your child to pull away. It’s a normal step in teenage development, is that they’re just trying to find a sense of where they belong. And if a parent kind of takes that brave step of taking a step back and allowing their child to explore themselves and what that means to them, they will see a drastic difference in their child. A lot of the times every child wants to feel safe at home, like they’re accepted and allowing your child to explore their gender, it can make all the difference in the world. Most children are not expecting their parents to be experts they’re just expecting them to be there and be accepting and to be warm.”

M.C.: “Exactly! Why is it important for our children to learn about gender?”

R.D.: “I think it’s important for children to learn about gender in its vast form, meaning that it’s more than what society says it is. And I love teaching the sex ed class that I do with Unhushed because we teach it in a way that it explores every facet of somebody’s gender identity. And we have them create a physical representation of their gender expression and they get to introduce it to a partner for the first time. And it’s a very exciting activity because it’s something that a child has never been asked before. Seeing them get a brainstorm and what could that mean? And a lot of the times, actually I’ve never seen happen like this, they never put how they’re currently expressing themselves on the paper. They put something extravagant because it’s kinda their being, extravagance, and at a certain point of your life you take part in that extravagance and then that extravagance and you show that off to people. And it’s a beautiful thing to have children learn about gender like that; that it’s not all baseball and trucks for boys and princesses and pink for girls. It can be mix and match. It’s going into a candy store and getting one of those cellophane bags and taking a little bit of everything.”

M.C.: [Laughter] “Exactly.”

R.D.: “and it’s beautiful to see them explore that side, and the younger kids that I’ve taught it’s been amazing because most of them already have the concepts. Like they know what it is to be trans and non-binary and a lot of the times they are accepting of it, not all of the time, but a lot of the time they are. And it’s beautiful to see that transition in children that they can grasp these concepts that people ten, fifteen years older than they can’t.”

M.C.: “Yeah, I feel like we have a lot that we can learn from young people. And it seems that over time we are told in our society that we have to choose across a lot of different things. Aspects of our identity, we need to pick the job we’re going to have, the future that we’re going to have, the partner that we’re going to have, our identity, where we’re going to live. We have to make these finite choices and that they don’t exist on a spectrum. So I think that we as adults start to become socialized out of understanding that experience that I think we all once had of being as wide open as you see these students being.”

R.D.: “I think that’s why it’s really important for parents to learn from their youth and I tell parents, it’s okay to be scared. It’s something that you’ve never had to think about whether it is privileged or not it’s scary a lot of the times. And a lot of the times it’s scary because their children are going against societal or society’s construct. That can put a lot of fear in a parent, because what if they get hurt? Everyone watches the news and sees what can happen. But it’s something where they can find themselves and in that, the children finding themselves it can help the parent become more open and understand the world around them.”

M.C.: “Right, do you do any classes or workshops as far as getting parents together that may be of these shared or similar experiences?”

R.D.: “I’m about to start a parenting class for parents of LGBQ teenagers in April.”

M.C.: “Awesome!”

R.D.: “Yeah, I’m very excited, I don’t have the dates set just yet but if somebody wants to go to my website, the information is up there for pricing and what to expect.”

M.C.: “In the work that you do and the therapeutic work that you do what are some of the key theories or aspects of your practice that you find helpful in working with trans children and their families?”

R.D.: “I am a narrative therapist in an expressive arts therapist so I love stories! It’s one of the biggest facets of narrative therapy is finding power in your own story. Making sense of life around you through your narrative. And building confidence in your story and I love listening to my clients tell their stories, because no matter how young someone is they have a very powerful story. And watching a seven-year-old tell their story of transitioning watching their eyes light up the first time that someone called them a “he” or a “she.” You know being able to go in the bathroom that they’ve been dying to go in; it’s so powerful and so heartwarming. And then I can see the same twinkle and spark in the eyes of a teenager, or a thirty-year-old, or a sixty-year-old in just as someone shares their story, especially when you’re sharing your story with someone who you don’t feel is judging you. That’s a very powerful thing to do, and it encourages someone to unravel that story and tell more, and tell more and tell hopes and dreams and just every facet of your life. So that’s why I love stories and why I’m a narrative therapist; so much expressive arts component of that is being a kind of, “express your inner thoughts and feelings through art”  in some way, because sometimes it’s hard to talk about things that are going on in your head. Or maybe sometimes you just don’t have the words for it? 

M.C.: “Right.”

R.D.: “So we’ll do some artwork, which I am not good at art, and that’s not the point of it, you just kind of put your thoughts and feelings on paper in some way. Whether it be with a crayon or a pen, sometimes I break out my sand tray and we build an entire sand world to represent thought and a feeling. And being able to process like that and putting those two together being able to put a story to a piece of art you created whether it’s a story that happened in your life or not. Because you can always find life lessons and themes in fantasy.”

M.C.: “I think that that’s so important! So is some of the work that you do with both the parents and the young person in the same space?”

R.D.: “Yeah sometimes! I, a lot of the youth mostly teenagers that I work with I usually do a mix of individual with the teenager and then family sessions. I will usually go every four sessions with an individual and then we’ll have a family session. And that’s, I’ve seen that work a lot, that’s the primary way I do things.”

M.C.: “Right, and I can see how if you’re allowing that space for that young person and even the parent you know to be able to tell their story or share their perspective and it not be interrupted or shut down that must be transformative and open up opportunities for empathy between them.”

R.D.: “Yeah, yeah it definitely does! It’s a very healthy and constructive way to share fears. A lot of times when you’re sharing fears with someone, it can feel heavy. If they’re not presented in a clear and healthy way, you’ll kind of be presenting your fears to the other person and saying, “here hold these,” but in a session where everyone feels like they are being heard it’s when you can say, “these are my fears, and they may have nothing to do with you, but I’m afraid of this.” It can be very empowering for a parent to say to their teenager, and then the teenager has a chance to respond and look at them and say, “I recognize that fear, and I can see why you fear that, but this is why we need to do this.””

M.C.: “What would you want people to know or to take away in terms of understanding the experience of trans youth and trans folx in general?”

R.D.: “That just like the rest of us, they’re just trying to find where they belong and a sense of self. And when someone holds a lot of privilege that is a lot easier to do. Trying to not be a gatekeeper or a roadblock, validate their experiences, don’t question them on it. And I see a lot of adults do that a lot they’re like, “well how do you know?” and that’s not their question to ask anyone, because a lot of the time the answer is, just do. And kind of trying to step out of the way, allowing them to explore themselves and trust that they know who they are on the inside. And yes, that’s going to change and develop as they get a sense of themselves as it does with all of us. As we get older we figure out what gender means to us as individuals.”

M.C.: “Mhm.”

R.D.: “That’s the important thing, that gender, and sexuality, it’s an individual thing. We each have slightly different definitions and slightly different understanding of what something is. Where a trans and non-binary youth are answering those questions for themselves.”

M.C.: “Yep.”

R.D.: “And it’s not being that gatekeeper, that roadblock and encouraging that exploration and trying to ask healthy questions like, “what can I do for you?” “What kind of support do you need from me?” and asking questions that foster support and love.”

M.C.:  “I love that. What resources would you offer or “go-to’s” for families so that they can either learn more or get support?”

R.D.: “Definitely. We have an amazing organization here in Austin called, Out Youth, and they are amazing! There’s a new organization here in town, been around for a year now we had an amazing conference here last year and it’s The Central Texas Transgender Health Coalition, and they are phenomenal at what they do. We also have organizations like, Allgo, which is for queer people of color. Austin, we are lucky to have a lot of organizations that support LGBT youth, young adults, parents and families. National Center for Transgender Equality, is an amazing organization to go to, they have parts of their website that is dedicated to each state so if you want to learn about different organizations in that state, or different laws in that state, or things such as that, that is the best website and organization to go to for resources.”

M.C.: “Awesome! What does sex positivity mean to you?

R.D.: “Sex positivity to me means being open and being accepting. It’s an individual process, and like I like to tell my middle schoolers when we create group agreements, it’s all about not yucking someone’s yum.”

M.C.: [Laughter] “Yes.”

R.D.: “And it’s just about knowing that sex is different for everyone, and everyone’s gonna have a different style and taste of what they want. And accepting that, you don’t have to understand it, you don’t have to question someone about it, it’s just being like, “Okay, I see you, I support you, and I love you.” 

M.C.: “So what projects are you excited about looking at 2018 the rest of this year?” 

R.D.: “WHEW! A lot is coming up for 2018, especially April! In April, Adam Maurer and I are having a workshop for mental health professionals who want to serve LGBT clients. It’s kinda like an intro workshop. I also have a parenting class for parents of LGBTQ teenagers coming out in April. I’m going to be having a free information session for that. And sometime in mid-April, I don’t have a date yet, but if someone wants to learn more about it they can go to my website pridecounselingatx.com. And one thing I’m very excited about, I have my first book ever coming out at the end of March. Co-written with Dr. Karen Rayne, of Unhushed that I teach sex ed with…”

M.C.: “Awesome.”

R.D.: “And I am very excited about that book!”

M.C.: “So just a few things, right?” [Laughter]

R.D.: “Just a few.” [Laughter]

M.C.: “And you have your practice right?”

R.D.: “I do. I am in private practice in south Austin and I specialize in working with identity development in queer youth and young adults.”

M.C.: “Well it’s obvious that you are doing great work in that space. How can folx connect with you or your platforms or the information that you have to offer?”

R.D.: “I have my website pridecounselingatx.com. I put most of my information on there. I also have a monthly newsletter. It comes out on the first of every month. You can sign up for that at my website and my largest platform that I use the most is Instagram. My handle is @pridecounselingatx. I absolutely love using Instagram. I feel like I connect with my population the most through there, and I post absolutely everything on there, including what I’m doing, resources around the city, and book recommendations all the time!” 

M.C.: “And you have some, you’ve released recently some characters, right? Tell me again what’s the name, and how did that come about?”

R.D.: “I have! I have created five graphic characters that I call my “pride partners,” and each pride partner is a different gender identity and sexual orientation. And I came about that while I was visiting my best friend that I graduated grad school with in Seattle. And I was reading a book and it was a book that was a half comic book, a half novel about a queer teen. And it made me think about all my clients, and a large portion of my clients are extremely artistic and it just popped into my head creating artistic representations of what gender and sexuality can look like. So, I have characters as I said of all different gender identities, sexual orientations, cultural backgrounds and all that information in all five of their bios can be found on my website and I will be hopefully releasing small novels for each by the end of the year.”

M.C.: “Oh wow, that’s ambitious! That’s awesome!”

R.D.: “Thank you!”

M.C.: “And how have those been useful? How have the folks that you’ve been working with really connected with those characters?”

R.D.: “A lot of my parents have been reading and connecting with them. It’s easy to read the bios, which were created to represent one possible story and hopefully introduce a new perspective for people who have a binary view on gender and sexuality. So it’s kinda geared towards parents who may need a starting point and at the end of each bio of the five pride partners, there are resources and videos that they can go to, to learn more. So, they’ve been received extremely well and I’m very happy about that. 

M.C.: “Thank you so much for sharing your journey with us and for doing the great work that you do.” 

R.D.: “Thank you so much for having me! And thank you for all the work that you are doing, I love connecting with fellow sex education geeks that are around the city.”

M.C.: “Proud geeks, right!?” [Laughter] 

R.D.: [Laughter]

M.C.: “Thank you so much, Ryan!” 

{Person Speaking} 

“If you like this episode and podcast please leave a review in iTunes or GooglePlay so more people can find us. And you can always visit us on our website at sexpositivefamilies.com, there you can shop sex-positive swag in our online store. Connect with us across our social media platforms, join our Facebook community, and learn more resources to help support sexual health in your family. Until next time, I’m Melissa Carnagey, thank you for supporting content that strengthens sexual health talks in families.” 

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