006: Adam Maurer | Myths of Monogamy vs. Modern Monogamy

{Soft instrumental music plays as introduction} 

{Person speaking} 

Welcome to Sex Positive Families where parents, caring adults, and advocates come to grow and learn about sexual health in a supportive community. I’m your host, and the founder of SPF, Melissa Carnagey. Join me, and special guests, as we dive into the art of sex positive parenting. Together, we will shake the shame and trash the taboos to strengthen sexual health talks with the children in our lives. Thank you so much for joining us! 

{Same person speaking} 

“Hi, Families, recently while on Instagram, I came across a post that spoke about the myths of monogamy and offered an alternative of modern monogamy. I was so intrigued by the points made that I shared it on the SPF Instagram and it very quickly got a lot of engagement from our community. Many folx seemed to connect to or be intrigued by the comparison of these two constructs. So I thought, we need to get the author of this post onto the podcast. 

Well, that author is Adam Maurer of Moontower Counseling. Adam is a licensed therapist in private practice in the Austin, Texas area who works a great deal with couples and individuals around relationships, especially folx within the LGBTQ+ community. Adam believes that therapy is a place to explore strengths and challenges with acceptance and an open mind, and Adam’s work focuses on empowering clients to thrive in a world that is not always understanding. So this episode explores the myths of monogamy and offers insight into modern monogamy. Let’s check it out.”

Melissa Carnagey: “I am very excited to have the SPF community hearing your perspective, and especially on this topic of exploring the concept of monogamy versus modern monogamy, because some of this relationship stuff can make people’s heads spin. It can get a little too close to home. But before we get into that I would love to hear, and have you share what your journey has been to the work that you’re doing.”

Adam Maurer: “Yes, so I kind of grew up in a chaotic family, with parents who didn’t get along. Mix that with being a young, queer kid and I realized that I needed some support. So I ended up going to counseling when I was in undergrad, and in counseling that’s how I came out, so I realized the power of therapy there. And that jump-started my journey to how powerful talking about things can be. I went to St. Edwards [University], and I studied marriage and family therapy, and in that, I realized how much we as people don’t know about relationships. I would look at my parents’ relationship and realize how much they hurt each other, and how there is a lack of understanding of things. So a big piece of me then said, “Hey, I want to help people make relationships work.” So in 2013, I opened up my practice, and in doing so and starting to get couples in, I had a lot of people come in and they would talk about things that were relationship issues, and oftentimes what they were bringing to me was being hurt and let down by some myths of monogamy. And working with people in that, understanding you’ve been sold that this is what this ought to be like, and that’s just not reality, and helping people start to unpack why that myth existed for them and to accept their partner as is was a big piece of me putting together this post. And so what I like is this notion of modern monogamy, which means a lot more communication, a lot more knowing yourself, and a lot more radical authenticity. It was kind of a “twisty-turney” journey to get there.”

M.C.: “It’s great the work that you’re doing and it’s so needed because again this is that connection, the need for human connection that we have, and that desire to partner ourselves with people is universal. And so trying to figure out, “Well how do you make this work?” and our previous generations, this has evolved and looked differently. What are some factors that have made modern monogamy the new thing?”

A.M.: “So my grandparents were together for over 60 years before my grandfather passed. They grew up in the same town, so in rural Pennsylvania, he could either date my grandmother or date this other woman (laughs). There’s just a lack of choices. Nowadays, you can get on an app, and find potential mates all over the place, and that can actually create a troubling situation for people. So one of the myths of monogamy is that there is one person out there for you. So if there is one person out there for you, you get on Tinder, you start chatting someone up, and anything that doesn’t align with what you think love ought to be or a partner should be, automatically knocks that person out. So all of the sudden because of that myth, there’s this notion that any imperfection in a potential mate makes them no longer a valid candidate, you just move on to the next person. What’s troubling about that to me, is it creates this situation where people are really objectified, so this is where we get things like “ghosting.” Somebody talks to someone, goes on a date, something seems a little bit off but they don’t say, “Hey, let’s talk about this thing.” They just stop talking to that person altogether because there’s a seemingly endless sea of people that you can just swipe on. It’s been interesting to see how technology has played a part in shifting what monogamy means. And the reality is, the myth of monogamy has hurt a lot of people in their lifetime. One of the myths that is out there is that your partner not only knows what you need but gives it to you at all times.” 

M.C.: “Oh boy.” (laughs)

A.M.: “Such a big ask, right? I’m a very extroverted person, and I love my husband to death, and he’s an introvert. He is never going to be an extrovert. If you’re partnering well, if you’re making a life with someone, you typically pick someone who compliments you. If you’re both extroverts, you can easily have too much time out of the house and never have any downtime alone together. But what ends up happening for people in this myth is that if this partner is the right one for you, then they must also fulfill your needs. Then if you don’t fulfill my needs, something’s wrong with one of us or this relationship. And this is how they come into my office. This person’s broken, and they sometimes want me to tell them who’s right and who’s wrong (laughs), as if there’s only one way to live your life on this earth. So it’s breaking it down for them that there are actually multiple ways to be, and if you want to make a partnership work, modern monogamy is about understanding- 1) Who your partner is and finding value in that and 2) Recognizing that oftentimes some of the challenges that make us difficult to love are a part of some of our strengths. Let’s say you’re really assertive, and maybe that’s helpful in business, maybe it helps get a table in a crowded restaurant, but that assertiveness can also come across as bossy. And, it’s the ability as a partner to go, “Oh, this is just a continuum of one of your attributes and sometimes it is challenging.” So when I work with people, and this is what I teach within modern monogamy, is there are a lot of ways to have your needs met. Can you meet it yourself? If you’re looking for someone to advocate for you, you want someone to stand up for you. What if that person was you? Now sometimes people don’t have that in them, or don’t have that skill, and let’s be real, we live in a complex society that puts an undue burden on people of color, queer people, so sometimes you just don’t get to have a voice.” 

M.C.: “I’m glad you brought that up…”

A.M.: “Then it’s like, “Do I have friends? Do I have family?” Let’s say I’m really craving connection and my partner maybe just doesn’t have it in them that day. Maybe they had a really tough day at work, and so their resources are low. Well, guess what, I can always hang out with my dog, and my dog will love any attention I give him. So it’s this notion that people, places, things, there’s an endless amount of ways to get our needs met, and to open that up, to take the pressure off our partner. Because if we expect our partner to do that, to meet all of our needs, we’re going to be really let down, and people don’t tell you that. So what ends up happening is, let’s say that one person’s an extrovert, one is an introvert. That person who is introverted may begrudgingly say, “Sure, you said if I don’t go out with you more then I don’t really care about you,” and then they maybe start to feel resentful. “I don’t get to have downtime. I have to come out and do this thing that isn’t really for me, it isn’t really benefiting me as an individual, just so you can feel that I care for you.”

M.C.: “And it seems that it puts the mirror onto both partners, folx needing to have some accountability and take some responsibility and maybe to do some work that sometimes people may try to avoid by projecting onto a partner these certain expectations. And that doesn’t sound like that is the most comfortable place for everyone, that this isn’t about the other person always, there is some stuff that I may need to rework or adjust.”

A.M.: “You have to understand what it means to love me. There’s a lot of times in therapy when I’m working with clients, where I will have them think about how this need might be related to something that’s in their past. So oftentimes these kinds of narratives that people are writing are bigger than their partner. And once they start understanding that, then it’s like, “Oh, okay, I’m trying to have a corrective experience with you from when I was eight, and that’s not your job. You’re not the person that hurt me when I was eight.”

M.C.: “Thank goodness for therapists and therapeutic spaces because there’s so much from our pasts, and our journeys and our upbringing that gets swept under the rug or they get pushed aside because we’re in a survive and thrive mode. And then they present themselves, they rear themselves in these different ways, and certainly in relation to other people within our relationships.”

A.M.: “It’s tricky, people don’t always want to go there. So a lot of people experience trauma, and I can’t tell you how many people come into my office and they would rather have borderline personality disorder or be considered schizophrenic, than someone who has experienced trauma. And so that is how difficult it can be for people to go into those tough spaces. They would rather have a diagnosis than say I was a victim of something that was really painful or experienced something that was really tragic. It’s a challenging thing to get couples to see that. Melissa, one of the other myths that I think is really important to talk about when it comes to monogamy, is this notion that monogamy is for everyone. And I surprisingly work with a lot of people who come in, who when we talk about how did you choose this as a relationship structure they say, “Well, this was just the default.” How many people understand that there’s actually a lot of ways to make relationships work? And people don’t even have to be in a relationship. There’s this expectation that not only do we not be single, but we couple up and it is monogamous. So there’s often times where I have to help folx and couples who come in and sort this out. Is this even really what you both want. How did you decide that this is the relationship for you?”

M.C.: “So what are the differences between the modern monogamy, open relationships and polyamory?”

A.M.: “So I think of modern monogamy then, as really slowing down, and talking about some of the needs that you are going to have, and it can be really challenging because it requires a lot of vulnerability. So a common issue that people come into therapy for is in a relationship, they are not having sex. People don’t necessarily know how to talk about the sex that they want to have, they might not even know what they want or turn themselves on for. So what I find, within modern monogamy, is I’m going to help people get really good at understanding their sexuality and sharing that with the person they want to share it with. And that is the big difference between that, and the myth that if you’re the one for me, then you just know how to have sex with me (laughs) as if our bodies don’t change over time, as if our sexual needs don’t change over time. It’s a big shift, and it’s a really tough thing for people. I can’t tell you how many folx are having solo sex in their relationship. So being able to say, “Hey, I feel turned on, where are you at?” and if a partner is cool, “What would you like to explore? What might we do together?” Or if you’re not turned on right now, then I’m going to enjoy some solo sex, and I’m going to have some private time or you’re welcome to watch that. Or whatever it’s going to be, it’s that ability to really own your sexuality in that way. So that’s different than saying, I maybe have this desire for sex, and let’s say it’s a fetish or a kink, and a partner might not be into it, and they say, you know what, you can go explore that with this group of people over here who are really into that. So that’s more of an open relationship built around eroticism. All the way to polyamory, that you can have a loving, connecting relationship with another person, as well as with your partner. And ultimately I would say, people, get to define monogamy for themselves. Some people would say, me and my partner sometimes invite a third person into our relationship for some fun, but we’re still monogamous. And that’s what monogamy means to them. It’s a very modern form of monogamy. But other people might say that’s not monogamy, then what do you do, they go down their own rabbit hole of theories. So modern monogamy really is, to me, about owning the relationship that you want to have. Being able to say this is meaningful to me, where are you at and how do we now keep our bond as we explore all the things that are out there.”

M.C.: “That to me seems really empowering, and it sounds really freeing. I’m curious though if there are folx who are seeking certain levels of certainty and so this could be potentially threatening or unsettling.” 

A.M.: “Sure, so the myth of monogamy gives you the false sense of security. So what ends up happening for people, we’re all a little bit aware of our own stunts, a little neurotic, a little “am I lovable?” and then it’s like you trick a person into picking you. Therefore, you’re really lovable, those fears are not necessary anymore because this person chose you. Your worst fear that you are unlovable is no longer something to be afraid of. But what the reality is, is people are people, you can pick a partner and still find other things attractive. One of the hardest things about being human is that we are constantly aware of what we give up, even if we love what we pick. I love pizza to death, Melissa, I have a love affair with pizza, but I also love hamburgers. So for lunch today, there’s a part of me that will be very happy, and there’s a part of me that will say, “and, I can’t have hamburgers now.” That is the human dilemma. So this ability of people to go, “I realize that I want to feel secure, but I also want some adventure in this. I want both of these things.” And some people really move to that security piece and want to feel like “if you pick me, if I control you, if you only have eyes for me, then I’m still okay.” And that is really challenging. It cages people in. And in reality, I do a lot of work with folx who have been through a betrayal, so they’ve been monogamous and one person breaks that relationship contract. It’s not necessarily the actions that people do. It’s not that someone had sex. It’s more that, “Oh gosh, you have now challenged my security. Am I really special?” and it creates, in a sense, an existential dilemma for the partner who has been betrayed, “Oh gosh, am I really not as good as I thought? Am I really terrible?” And they’re left in some really crummy places. So it’s tricky because I think it’s a trade-off, it’s a sense of security people want to hold on to. So my husband and I, we’re open in our relationship, and I give this talk. I talk about all sorts of relationship structures any time I can, and I often get the question from people who are curious about non exclusive relationships, “What if you meet someone and you like them more than your partner?” Then I’m like “Are you alluding to then I would have to leave my partner? Because you’re talking about monogamy.” That is a trait of monogamy, and it’s part of the myth if you have any feelings for anyone else other than your partner, then that challenges that relationship.”

M.C.: “Because that person is mine, and I’m theirs.” 

A.M.: “But the reality is we have lots of friends, and just because you’re friends with one person, doesn’t mean you’re not friends with another person. It doesn’t challenge the friendship that you hold. I have a deep level of friendship with this person, and this person meets some other needs and that’s why we’re close, and it’s a beautiful thing. So it’s moving out of this idea that because you’re picked, you’re special. No, you’re special because you’re a human on this earth.”

M.C.: “That’s just a given, you’re special.”

A.M.:  “So the more you can own that, then you take the pressure off your partner to make you feel special.”

M.C.: “I love that, and I see the value in allowing for that type of an understanding within your children, and as they seek to explore relationships with others and grow into that. I personally feel, as a parent just speaking for myself, a lot more empowerment can exist and confidence can exist and less stress in life can exist for my child if they’re aware that they don’t have to operate in what can feel like a rigid and unrealistic construct of monogamy.” 

A.M.:  “And what I see a lot of in this too, is that people might be in a monogamous relationship and have feelings of attraction to another person, they can be emotional, they can be mental, they can be physical, it can be on a spiritual level and if they don’t have the tools to talk about that with their partner, they don’t use that as a healthy way to say “I realize that there’s a part of me that really longs for an intellectual conversation about this topic,” or what have you, and I feel a closeness to this person because of it. If that conversation doesn’t happen because of the fear of challenging monogamy, that’s actually setting people up to then either be resentful or step out of the relationship in a way that hurts the other person. This is good, it’s good to acknowledge what you are attracted to, because then if you want to be connected to one person, you can use that to say, “I want more of this in my life. I want to feel this.”

 M.C.:  “What do you suggest for folx that are in a relationship and they’re hearing all of this, they’ve been feeling some feelings that don’t feel quite right within the monogamous schema that they’ve been operating. What do you suggest in terms of how do they approach this and bring this up with their partner?”

A.M.: “I’m a big advocate that if you have a foundation, a friendship in your relationship, if there’s contempt that you hate each other, that’s a whole different route we have to go. We have to first build appreciation. We can’t talk about this level of stuff if you think that person’s waking up each day to ruin you. There’s a foundation of friendship. Then I would encourage people to look at, “We are in this together. We are a team. It’s you and me versus the challenges that we face as a relationship.” So then it’s time to go, “Hey partner, I need to have a conversation with you about something that can be tough. And the reason I want to have it is because I want to join you. I want to be closer to you, but I also want to be vulnerable and talk about something.”  And then there are some key parts to that. One, invite your partner to have that conversation when they’re at their best. Oftentimes stuff comes up for people and they want to talk about it right away, or what’s best for them as an individual and don’t consider that their partner is having their own life. So if I want you to be the best listener that you can be, I’m going to invite you when you’re at your best. I’m not going to invite you at the end of your workday when you have given your resources to everyone else necessarily. And then when you ask someone to be a part of that conversation, you’re already showing that they are considered, that they are respected. And so, though the other person might have some feelings of security challenged, it is easier then, to say “I’m in this with you, the reason I’m bringing this up is to continue to be in this with you, but it’s important for me to explore what’s going on here.”  And, Melissa, the conundrum that happens for couples is that if you pick a good partner, and in some ways, you create a level of safety and security that allows for people to take a healthy risk, and then that healthy risk can challenge the relationship that you’ve created. So it’s an interesting dynamic for people who come in and they say, “I really love this person, but now I feel like things are different.” Well yes, you’ve probably grown some. This helps you challenge yourself. When I started my relationship with my husband, I didn’t consider myself to be genderqueer. It wasn’t until a couple of years being with him, and then I got comfortable enough in myself to go, “Adam, you have a lot of femininity in you. What is that about? That’s something that should be honored and cherished. You are genderqueer. You’re not just a dude. And that was really powerful. Then my husband had to shift some of his understanding of who I am to make space for me to be this new person in our relationship.”

M.C.: “That’s beautiful, and you posted recently about that. You made a comment about that as an example and also a major job transition as examples. And I thought, “Oh my gosh I feel he’s speaking to me.” Because I too had those experiences recently, and I now identify as genderqueer myself.”

A.M.: “Welcome to the club.” (laughs)

M.C.: “I know, thank you (laughs). It’s just akin to this monogamy construct. It’s realizing that there are some messages that I’ve received and picked up on in my upbringing and that I thought that this is what it meant to be a good this, and a good that, and the right this, and the right that, but now that I’m an adult, and growing, and continue to have my own journey, this isn’t feeling right. It’s not feeling right. It’s not feeling like a fit. And I’m excited that we have some words, and some platforms that can help us to identify what actually does feel right, and we’re not feeling completely alone or isolated in that. And I see that same thing, with monogamy, and people coming to change within themselves and within their relationships.” 

A.M.:  “I think it really starts with that radical authenticity. So many people are so scared of what they really want. I’ve done a lot of sex therapy, and I’ll have people come in and it’s their first time talking about any of their sexual needs. And these are people in their 30s and 40s sometimes. They have never openly said to anyone, “I turn myself on for this.” And it is a really powerful experience to be the person that people can do that with. Sometimes they’re so petrified, so what ends up happening in relationships, and this is pulling in from us to grow, is that in a relationship you have your romantic love and your erotic love. So romantic love is about knowing, and equity and safety and being connected and feeling like a team. Then erotic love is more about a little bit of mystery, and I think that part of our eroticism is made up of pieces of our exiled self. Some pieces of us that we’ve been told outright, shouldn’t see the light of day. I use myself as an example a lot of the time because it’s easier and I’m a little bit of a narcissist (laughs). I was the baby of my family, and so I got a lot of attention, I got to be the funny one and that was a really great feeling. But as I grew up, I realized that I can’t always be the center of attention, and so I learned how to give the spotlight to other people. But then there’s some part of me that still wants to have that, and isn’t eroticism a great place for that to surface? So what becomes challenging for people in a relationship, in a monogamous relationship, is they might start to recognize, “I really want to explore this in eroticism, but can I show this exiled piece of myself as part of myself I’ve been told to hide, to this person that I share everything with? Are we still going to be cool?” And that is really challenging for people. And so this is part of modern monogamy, that you can understand that people are complex, so maybe by the light of day, we advocate for certain things. I do a lot of social justice work. A lot of folx who are in that field, they advocate for people to have a sense of pride, and love themselves,  and there are terms they would never use by light of day, but in their eroticism they might want to be called that because it’s a way to process and deal with this exiled piece of themselves. So it’s a complex concept but once you break it down, this gives you an arena to love your whole self, and how great if you could do that with this person you’ve made a life with. That takes a real humbling conversation.” 

M.C.: “And I definitely can see the value and the need for having the therapeutic space to be able to do that because this appears to draw upon a lot of skills that we probably need to learn. A lot of us. That we weren’t in terms of some different communication skills and listening skills and affirming skills, and all the while this information could mean some major changes to what we thought was within that relationship and so how do we deal with that? How do we accept that? What do we do with that?” 

A.M.: “It’s so much understanding, as individuals, we’re all writing our narrative, and oftentimes we make ourselves the protagonist, and that means that our partners can either be a sidekick or a challenge or at worst, a villain. And being able to slow that down and go, “How are you writing your narrative and how does that marry with mine? How do we now suss this out to understand both of our perspectives as we try to continue having a relationship together?” This idea that your partner must fulfill all your needs… We have a whole village open to us and to expect one person to be a village, oh my goodness, you’re going to be let down if you do that. Can you imagine asking someone to be everything for you, like your cook or your confidant?”

M.C.: “But that happens, when we think about marriage. Folx that go that route of marriage, vows, actual commitments, and if there’s a religious component there, then  things are said in the presence of God, and with Bibles involved. Why would anyone think otherwise because that, for a lot of people, is laced into their culture and into their values that this is my one and only, my everything, and people then attach their identity to that, to being someone else’s everything.” 

M.C.: “This is part of the reason it’s so devastating, because then my whole identity is being challenged, and what does that mean about me now? So I teach folx who are monogamous, you’re going to have to have three selves: You have your individual self to be taken care of and have time committed to. You have your relationship self, so you have to be lovers. You have to be companions. You have to be partners, and if you have a family you have your family self. You have your role as a parent or a caregiver and that’s important too. And you have to balance all three of those and if any of those are out of whack it’s going to make the other ones have some issues pop up. That’s where people can feel resentful. That’s where people can become like helicopter parents, “I’m not having a good connection with my partner so I’m going to pour into my kid,” and that kid says, “Can I get some space to breathe? (laughs) Trying to be an individual here.” It’s tricky, and we live in a world that teaches especially women, that if you’re a mother this is what it means to be a mother. You have to give up everything and if you have a self outside of your family or your kids, then you’re somehow selfish. And I’m like, “Yeah you got to be selfish.” You have to have a self outside of your kids or there’s going to be a part of you that can be resentful of those kids. To me here’s where it gets tricky, your name changes when you have a child. You went from “Melissa” to “Mom” but you’re still Melissa, so there’s a part of that that has to be recognized and taken care of and that makes you a better Mom. It makes you a better partner. It makes you a better Melissa. At the end of the day, there are so many times where I tell couples, “Look, if you’re good enough about 80% of the time for your partner, then you’re doing well.”

M.C.: “The 80/20.” (laughs)

A.M.: “Yes, that 20%, you’ll have enough in your relationship bank that you will forget about milk and it’s not the end of the world (laughs). What ends up happening is people  are not checking in. They aren’t updating their snapshot of who their partner is. They don’t talk about, “I’m going through this thing, I’m transitioning from this role of Mom to who am I now.”  Then that’s where there are miscommunication and overtime that’s where things can get really tricky, and that relationship bank can get really low, and then once the relationship bank is low that’s where any sort of perceived slight can set off an argument or a fight or questioning, “Do you really love me?”

M.C.: “Well, this has been such a valuable conversation, and I know we could talk for hours about it but we are going to have to wrap up so I want to ask you just a few questions that will help folx connect further with you. First, what does sex-positivity mean to you and how does it show up in your life or your work?”

A.M.: “So to me, sex-positivity means not allowing shame to be a part of sexuality. So for yourself as an individual and the shame out for other people. It’s really easy to go, “Oh I know me and what I like and this is good” and then to yuck other people’s yum. And if we replace that with empathy and compassion and desire to understand, then all of a sudden the diversity of sexuality makes a lot more sense. There’s a lot more connection within it all. So to me, sex positivity means being dedicated to thinking about sex in a way that is compassionate and understanding to get the whole piece of it all.”

M.C.: “Well said. So what projects do you have that you’re looking forward to for 2018?”

A.M.: “This May, I’m going to be presenting at the Contemporary Relationships Conference in Houston. I’m doing a 3-hour workshop helping people navigate their sexual constellations and we’re going to talk about sex, so that’s going to be a great opportunity. And then I am a co-host for Sex Nerd Trivia, so we have been growing and growing and growing that. Sex Nerd Trivia we’re on Facebook and Instagram under that name. And I have my practice, Moontower Counseling, and one of the things I love about having my practice is being able to have couples come in and have a real conversation and get to a point where they can get more out of their relationship than they ever imagined. Those are the three big things that I have going on this year.”   

M.C.:  “That’s awesome. And I can definitely attest to the awesomeness of Sex Nerd Trivia and Bingo Bango. So if anyone is ever in the Austin area, we have a diverse audience of listeners, but for anyone that’s ever in the Austin area… Do y’all ever travel?”

A.M.:  “We’ve actually been talking about that. Talking about how to connect the two other organizations and things like that, so we definitely have the ability to. We’re just looking at what that would look like logistically.” 

M.C.:  “It’s awesome. It’s such a fun experience and you learn so much. You all do an amazing job at identifying some great facts and trivia so you really walk away having learned something. I don’t care how deep in the field you’ve been, you’re going to walk away having learned something.”

A.M.:  “When I pull out some of these questions and they shock me I’m like, “Oh I’m still learning. I did not realize that was a thing.” Everything’s a “thing” nowadays.”

M.C.: “There’s so many nuances under this umbrella of sexual health, which again for my parents that are listening and sometimes can feel overwhelmed just know that, even folx who are rooted in the field for so long. You just can’t know it all, and so it’s great to have resources like Sex Nerd Trivia events and you speaking at conferences and things like that, that can allow people to learn and go deeper in their knowledge. So how can folx connect with you and connect with your service, and what’s the best way to get in touch with you?”

A.M.:  “The best is to go to my website which is www.moontowercounseling.com. I also have Instagram and Facebook for that because I’m a therapist in the modern era. And that’s where we found this post to have today, and I’m always interested in what people think and what they have going on and really creating community so it’s helpful to hear from other people what they’re into and what they’re creating and how I could be supportive than that.”

M.C:  “Excellent. So you heard it, don’t be shy. We are going to include links in the show notes and so feel free to leave comments, connect with Adam and his amazing services and projects that he has going on. I want to thank you so much, Adam. This has been awesome, and I know it’s going to really help a lot of folx out there struggling with or trying to better understand monogamy and their own relationships.”

A.M.:  “Thank you for having me on, Melissa. I’m really glad that you have put this platform together, and there’s a big part of me and I want to say this because it’s the queer part of me, that loves getting to have a voice because it’s not often marginalized people get to go speak and bring their perspective in so it’s really meaningful to me that I get to be here today and be a part of this with you.”

M.C.:  “Thank you, that means so much and that’s really at the heart of this. We have a lot of voices out there to elevate. A lot of perspectives to share and so that’s what we’re striving to do so thank you for being a part of this and we look forward to connecting with you more.”

{ Person Speaking } “If you like this episode of the podcast, please leave a review on iTunes or Google Play, so more people can find us. And you can always visit us at our website www.sexpositivefamilies.com. There you can shop sex-positive swag in our online store, connect with us across our social media platforms and join our Facebook community and learn more about resources to help support sexual health in your family. Until next time, I’m Melissa Carnagey, thank you for supporting content that strengthens sexual health talks in families.”

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