003: Dr. Uchenna ‘UC’ Ossai | Demystifying Our Pelvic Floor

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Welcome to Sex Positive Families where parents, caring adults, and advocates come to grow and learn about sexual health in a supportive community. I’m your host, and the founder of SPF, Melissa Carnagey. Join me, and special guests, as we dive into the art of sex-positive parenting. Together, we will shake the shame and trash the taboos to strengthen sexual health talks with the children in our lives. Thank you so much for joining us!

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          Hi Families, so an important part of being a sex-positive family is maintaining the sexual wellness of the adults in the equation. Parents or caretakers can model attention to our sexual health, which sets a living example and gives our children permission to follow suit.  So on this episode, I had the pleasure of learning about the connection between pelvic health to sexual health from Dr. Uchenna Ossai who is a pelvic health physical therapist and AASECT certified sexuality counselor. Alongside her work in the medical field, she also has her own business called “You See Logic” which is a platform that focuses on improving the sexual intelligence of adults through innovative content and honest discussion that is free of judgment. That’s actually how we became connected, I watched her ‘Bourbon Tales’ series that she does on Instagram, so make sure you go follow her @YouSeeLogic so that you can get some grown and sexy sexual health information. So get comfy, and get ready to learn about sexual health and pelvic health because the doctor is in!

Melissa Carnagey: “Alright, so we have with us Dr. Uchenna Ossai, or better known as You See Logic, thank you so much for joining us today.”

Uchenna Ossai: “Thank you, I am so happy to be here with everyone. I’ve been a pelvic health physical therapist for about 7 years now, and really what started my journey was an internship when I was about 15 years old, a summer internship, with a wonderful woman named Kathy Tesco in Dallas, TX. When I interned with her I thought originally that it was just a regular orthopedic physical therapy job. But it was actually a pelvic health physical therapy job. She saw women and men with pelvic floor issues, so I thought: ‘Wow, this is amazing’, it ignited something deeper in me. I thought I wanted to either do business or med school, I was one of those nerdy kids who did Med School Camp and Math Camp. I thought this is it, this is what I’m going to do and when I did this job I thought whoa, I felt at home. So the reason why I went to P.T. (physical therapy) school was to be a pelvic health P.T. (Physical Therapist).

I had an interesting journey, I went to college in Boston, I went to Boston University and I was in their Masters Physical Therapy Program, as a freshman. But I partied too hard and was like I want to enjoy college life. I don’t want to be in a Master’s Program at 18. So I switched majors, and then came back to my senses once I graduated and thought, “I do want to be a P.T.,” so I just did research for two years and went to grad school at 24.”

M.C.: “Wow, so you’ve been in practice since then or do they have clinical work or how does that work?”

U.O.: “So I did a 3-year clinical doctorate program and that’s the terminal degree in physical therapy so that leads to a PharmD or a doctor in nursing. Then I went on to do my residency in women’s health at Washington University in Saint Louis. And then I was practicing for a couple of years before I decided to do some other post-graduate work at the University of Michigan at Ann Arbor, at their sexuality education…(corrects self) Sexual Health Certificate Program. That’s where I was actually able to get a lot of didactic learning and clinical mentorship for treating patients with sexual dysfunction because I didn’t have anything like this. There wasn’t anything like this in P.T. school. There wasn’t anything like this in my residency where I learned to be a pelvic health physical therapist. When you’re treating people who have complex pelvic floor dysfunction and are dealing with urinary incontinence, constipation, painful sex, general pain… you name it. Of course, they’re coming to you because they want to stop having bladder accidents or they want to stop having pelvic pain but that also impacts their sexual function, and that impacts your whole sense of self and identity. I felt a huge lack of competency and knowledge in addressing these needs for my patients. Literally, for the first couple of years, I was just reading as many books as I could, trying to take courses here and there. I felt like I needed to do something more and that’s why I did the Michigan program.”

M.C.: “Wow…and you… kind of speaking on that, you are one of three licensed physical therapists with this certification. Is that right?”

U.O.: “Yeah, yeah I’m one of three pelvic health physical therapists in the world with an AASECT Certification in Sexuality Counseling. I’m also a Board Certified Women’s Health Clinical Specialist, which it’s kind of like being a board-certified Ob-Gyn so your gynecologist went to med school and then did 4 years of residency, then sat for their boards to be a gynecologist, and so that’s the physical therapy version of that.”

M.C.: “Gotcha, gotcha. What intrigued you about and drew you to sexual health? Did you have any type of early experiences or curiosities or anything that tied you to this specific area?”

U.O. “You know I wish I could tell you there’s one specific thing but I have to say now that we’re talking to Sex Positive Families, it was my mother… it was my mom. My mother is like a Nigerian tour-de-force. You know, she’s a chemist…

M.C.: “Shout out to Mom!”

U.O.: “She’s a superstar. She’s a chemist. She’s an immigrant. She is a fierce Catholic. So it was really interesting growing up in a house where your mother is a scientist but also a hardcore Catholic, who goes to church twice a week. And she tells you to stay virginal until you’re married but that sex is supposed to be a pleasurable experience. And that you shouldn’t give it away to some guy but then she’s also saying that masturbation is okay. I would go to church three times a week because I was in parochial school my entire life until I went to college. It was very interesting ‘cause she wasn’t afraid to talk to us about sex. I feel like my sister and I lucked out with our mother because here she is trying to raise children in a certain religious belief system, but then also recognizing that she separated the religious belief with the sexual component. But then she also didn’t because she still firmly wanted us to be virgins, but not be virgins until marriage but until we were in love with someone until we were in a mutually respectful relationship. And that is a very radical thing for a hardcore Catholic mommy to say to her daughter. And it wasn’t because she was like ‘oh my precious female child, you know you need to stay pure for your man.’ It was more because she wanted us to have a beautiful experience, she wanted us to be able to give our whole selves to the person that was with. Even now I struggle with that because I’m like ‘Mom I’m not giving myself to anyone. I’m experiencing sex and you told me that was supposed to be mutually pleasurable experience…’ and she’s like ‘Of course, of course,’ and I think for her there is some patriarchal kind of ideologies that slip in there, even when she’s trying to be a very progressive parent. Not for the sake of being progressive but for the sake of her children, you know?  Because this is a woman who came from Nigeria, who was born and raised in Nigeria, in an environment where female genital mutilation was a common practice. I think from watching that and seeing that in her life, she wanted her children to have a robust experience but also be in line with our Catholic beliefs at the time… with her Catholic beliefs, at the time.”

M.C.: “Wow, that’s something that so many people are challenged with and struggle with, just those deep-rooted beliefs…”

U.O.: “But I also want to say I still hid the fact that I was having sex from my mom…(Laughs) I just want to make that clear…”

M.C.: (Laughs) “You’re not alone I think a lot of people listening can certainly raise their hand to that…”

U.O.: “Oh yeah… It wasn’t like I was like ‘Mommy I’m having all these great orgasms with this dude’ it was just more I knew what to do, I was on birth control and used a condom every time. I protected myself, and sex was more of exploring. I viewed sex differently, it wasn’t something that I did because I wanted to please the person I was with. I just wanted to do it because it was fun for me, and I was curious. So that’s a different place to be, especially than some of my classmates at the time, who were having sex to keep their boyfriend or girlfriend.”

M.C.: “Well, she did well!  Why is pelvic health so relevant to sexual health? Help us understand, for folx who may be new to talking about and learning about the pelvic floor, help us understand. Break it down for us.”

U.O.: “The pelvic floor is the muscles at the floor of your pelvis. So they are the muscles that attach at your pubic bone, that bone right in your lower abdomen and all the way back to your tailbone. They hold up all of your organs and their primary job is to keep your organs inside of you and to stabilize your pelvis and your spine. They help you with urination, defecation, sex, babies if you have a uterus and a vagina, and urination. And they also pump all the blood from your lower extremities back to your heart, and they also distribute your lymphatic fluid. So they have a lot… (both laugh) they’re doing a lot. They keep the train on the track. Those are huge components and I would have to say, why is your pelvic floor important for sexual health? Well because those are your sphincter muscles, right? So they say, if your bladder is full, those muscles have to relax and contract back up. If you have to have a bowel movement, the same thing, they relax. During sex, those muscles are going to compress and they’re going to release. They’re going to pump blood into the penis and the clitoris. They’re going to expand and contract through orgasm and during arousal. You know it’s going to work in synergy with your nervous system that’s getting up-regulated and as you get emotionally stimulated and triggered, they work in tandem, so it doesn’t work in isolation. It’s part of the team. If your pelvic floor isn’t acting right, if it’s acting a fool, then all of the other components related to that do get disrupted. The pelvic floor is kind of mechanical in that it has to contract and relax in a pattern that’s specific to the individual. In order for you to have the sexual experience you’re looking for, to feel the sexual experience fully.”

M.C.: “See, and what’s coming to mind for me, and I don’t know if this is just me and my life experience, but I don’t feel like I got a whole lot of education amongst all the anatomy oriented education that I had, specific to pelvic health or the pelvic floor. Is that just me or is that common?”

U.O.: “No, that’s very common. Very, very common. It’s almost shocking to me when you see, even formal sex education in schools, or whatever you want to call them, how they just totally ignore this body part. Hell most biology classes even don’t explore this part of your body, but it’s such an important part, but I think they stay away from it because it’s around the genitals. One of the components about your pelvic floor that I want people to understand… one of the things I want them to take away is that your pelvic floor is a muscle. Just like your abs are muscles, just like your bicep is a muscle, your booty is a muscle- your gluteal muscles, right?

So let’s say you’ve had a stressful day right? Let’s use me as an example when I am truly stressed I get headaches, and my neck just doesn’t want to act right…”

M.C.: “Yes, that’s me too…”

U.O.: “Right? So my body keeps the score, and it happens to keep the score in my neck, in my trapezius muscles, in my levator muscles. For somebody else, it might be their lower back. For someone else it may be their gut. For another person it might be their pelvic floor. So when you’re thinking about your pelvic floor muscle, it’s very sensitive to what’s going on in your life and day to day routine. And you may be a person where your pelvic floor isn’t affected by stress, but then you may be someone that is. And if you aren’t aware that that muscle exists, that can be a real problem. Because then you’re thinking “What is going on with my body? Why am I having pain or having a hard time pooping right now? Why can’t I pee right?”

M.C.: “That makes perfect sense, so then leading into that, what are some common dysfunctions you see that are correlated to the pelvic floor/pelvic health?”

U.O.: “Pelvic floor dysfunction is an umbrella term to describe any problems below the navel and above the knee. So let’s use men as an example, some men come to the urologist and say “Oh you know, I’m having pain in my prostate or I can’t pee or I’m having pain with ejaculation” right?  Then the Urologist will say “Oh you have an infection, here are some antibiotics.” And then the guy will take it and then he thinks he is fine. Then maybe a couple of weeks later, it’s still there. So after a few years, the doctor will say you don’t have an infection. I’m not giving you any more antibiotics. Well, it’s the public floor. So what they call that is male prostatitis, but it’s male pelvic pain. For women, there are things like dyspareunia, which is pain with intercourse. Vaginismus which is when the muscles around the opening of the vagina are too tight so nothing can go in. Right? Not a finger, not a tampon, not a speculum, not a dildo- Nothing. Right? Or when it does go in it’s extremely painful. Feels like they are being ripped apart vaginally. So pelvic floor dysfunction is constipation, the inability to empty your bowel or not getting the urge to have a bowel movement. It can be urinary urgency. Feeling like you always need to pee, but then you go to the bathroom and nothing comes out. You know that feeling when you need to pee really badly and get that relief once you’ve emptied? Imagine never having that relief, all the time, all day.”

M.C.: “That would be maddening…”

U.O.: “Maddening, right? Would you want to have sex if you feel like that all the time?”

M.C.: “Absolutely not, nothing is going inside of me if that’s happening (laughs)…”

U.O.: “(Laughs) Exactly. So, those are common conditions that you’ll see. Pregnancy and postpartum, that’s another thing, a lot of women postpartum, whether C-section or vaginal… Let’s say C-section, some women end up having a pubic symphysis separation, so the bone that connects to your pelvis in the front gets separated, which can be extremely painful. You might have an infection at the C-section, and mind you with a C-section they’ve cut through 3 layers of fat or not fat, excuse me, abdominal muscles. And your abdominal muscles are very important for what? Spine stabilization, pelvic girdle stabilization, pelvic floor function. Remember we talked about the team sport that the pelvic floor plays with the rest of your body? If your abs are off the field, it’s almost like hockey. I don’t know how many people play on a team, but let’s say 6 people play at a time. Let’s say one dude is in the penalty box, everyone else has to pick up the slack. So that is how you want to think about that postpartum period, and you’re at a hormonal disadvantage particularly if you’re breastfeeding. Because your estrogen stores have bottomed out. So that means all that juicy lube, that I call estrogen, goes away from your joints, your skin. Which means your vagina is drier than the Sahara Desert. Your joints are loosey-goosey. You don’t feel quite right and you’re sleep-deprived…”

M.C.: “Been there!”

Both: (Laughing)

M.C.: “And I know we have listeners who have been there so I’m sure they are saying amen on that! It makes it so, so hard to tap into intimacy and sexuality when all of that is going on, it’s crazy.”

U.O.: “It’s so hard. You know, one of the things I always tell a lot of my patients is that… particularly my postpartum patients, such strong exceptional humans in this group- I mean good lord. So what I say is that ‘right now your body is not acting right. Ok, we accept that. But we also need to look at the fact that you’re not getting as much sleep as you’re used to getting, you’re also taking care of a new human…’

Let’s say there are any issues with sex, even in the slightest before this came into play, that is going to rear its ugly head. Right? Because it sucks, you have to be… I was listening to a podcast by my colleague, Pleasure Mechanics, listening to Esther Perel talk about this very issue, and she says that women need to be a little more narcissistic in bed…”

M.C.: “Good point! (laughs)”

U.O.: “Right? When you’re going through that postpartum phase, where your whole mind and soul- Every cell in your body is focused on that baby, and it’s hard to kind of rip yourself out of “caretaking mode” to do you. So it’s really about counseling yourself, but also counseling your partner or partners to kind of support you in that. Because it may be that intimacy is your love language during that time in your life. You might need a partner who will anticipate every need you have so that you can at least have the bandwidth to consider sex.”

M.C.: “Yeah, and just with taking that load off of the many responsibilities because you can feel like a machine. Levels of your life are being sucked from you, sometimes literally, and it’s on this certain schedule, and the schedule is not yours anymore. As you said, the time to recoup and recharge through rest, or through even eating, through bathing through just some basic just kind of ‘self-care’ components. I think arguably within the first year at least, if you’re in a partnership and having a partner who is just willing to just take some of that load off, that can get those juices flowing!” (laughs)

U.O.: “It totally can. Or if you’re single, establishing community partners, ‘tribe partners.’ Because being a single parent is not easy, you know? My mother was a single parent with me starting at age 12 and granted my sister and I were toileting independently at that time, we could feed ourselves. But I remember that was a really tough time in our lives. When you have a new baby and you don’t have a partner sharing the same space with you it’s going to be a lot like… preserving your sexy means identifying partners to help you out even if this means that they can watch the baby for two hours while you shower and get a quick nap in. You know and something as small as that can make a huge difference in finding yourself again. But establishing those patterns, those behaviors early is going to be key to get you out of that postpartum period. You know once the baby is big enough when the baby is a little bit more independent.”

M.C.: “So by day you are immersed in this pelvic health work, but by night you get into other things… Is that right? What is that? Tell us about that.”

U.O.: “Yeah (laughs) I started my platform @YouSeeLogic Y-O-U-S-E-E Logic mainly as a platform for grown folx. So it stems from my patients, after years of treating people of all genders, ages, partner structures, one of the most common things I heard was “I wish I met you 10 years ago. I wish I knew this… I wish I knew that I could do this… I wish I knew I could go to someone about this. I was so sad that I was able to address my issue with you in two months when I’ve been dealing with this for 20 years.”  And that bugs me, so I started asking my patients “why did you wait so long? What was it?” They said things like “When I went to my doctor they told me to drink a glass of wine and chill out or they told me it was in my head and I just have to live with it. I didn’t think… I thought as an adult I already knew what I needed to know.”

M.C.:  “Yeah you trust that you’re getting the education you’re supposed to have to ‘adult’.”

U.O.:  “And you’re just like yeah I’m grown, what else am I supposed to know about sex? What else is there about sex that I need to know? What else is there about my body that I should know, other than the fact that it hurts or it’s not fun or I can’t maintain an erection or I can’t get orgasms. I’m just like dang…So it’s really about this lack of audacity or being aware of this permission to continue to seek knowledge about these things. That’s when I started learning and I decided that I need to do some more graduate work. Because I said to myself, well what is that about? Where is that coming from, you know? When you think about sex, you have to look at it from a biopsychosocial angle, right? There’s a biological piece that we talked about hormones. The psychological piece where we talked about stress or like hey maybe a person that’s more leaning towards an asexual point of view. Or you have a history with mental health or bipolar disorder. You know… or maybe you’re just a kind of a type B personality that can influence how your sex is.  And also how you grew up, what was your sociocultural environment growing up? And what’s your socio-cultural environment now? What are the cultural aspects of it- to their relationship… the relationship you have with your family, with your partner- if you have a partner, with your friends all of that informs your sexual footprint.”

M.C.: “Very well said. Through the work you’ve been doing in the sex education space you’re helping people to reach these breakthroughs and come to a better understanding of themselves with their sexuality and in their sexual health.”

U.O.: ” Absolutely, and that’s why I sometimes… Well, that’s why I started “Bourbon Tales,” because I’m like, if I’m going to talk about sex, I need to be drinking bourbon because that’s like my life juice. It’s a video format on Instagram, where I answer people’s questions about sex and it’s just a 60-second response. But I wanted to give people… I wanted people to be comfortable asking those questions and I wanted them to know that no one’s judging you and we are all wondering about the same question that you had the bravery to ask. And that’s why I also have this thing called “Swagger Tips” on Instagram as well trying to give people tips on how to maintain their sexy swagger. Sometimes they’re not about sex, sometimes they’re about what’s going on in society or culturally. I make comments on that or say ‘be kind’ or sometimes ‘you have to take a knee’ and it doesn’t necessarily need to be about the National Anthem it can be about anything going on in your life and understanding that that is going to impact how you express yourself sexually.”

M.C.: “Well Bourbon Tales is how SPF got to know you and your presence. You not only have a wealth of knowledge but also coupled with a real, genuine, honest perspective. It’s clear that you are passionately connected to serving in this way. So I highly encourage anyone listening who have not connected to @youseelogic on Instagram, you need to run over there and do that now! Check out the Bourbon Tales. You have a catalog of them at this point and you will still have new ones in the new year, right? We’ll see more Bourbon Tales? Because it’s 60 seconds but you hit all the key points and you do it with such a renewed perspective. Thank you. Thank you for bringing that in and filling that gap for a lot of us.”

U.O.: “Oh my pleasure! It’s a joy and I love doing it. And I will always do Bourbon Tales. They come out every Sunday, sometime in the evening and will always be there. You know I’m going to try to use some new formats this year, there’s stuff coming, but Bourbon Tales is my mainstay for sure.”

M.C.: “Well you are killing it. I have a couple more curiosities before we have to wind this out. One of them is what are some of your colleagues in the field thinking? Do they know or are they tapped into this work that you do outside of the day job?”

U.O.: “They’re starting to. I think that I’ve been very quiet about… Not because I’m ashamed because I love the work that I do… But you know how sometimes when you create projects it’s really for you and for the audience that you’re trying to reach. When I started this I genuinely had no idea that it would turn into what it is now. I generally just thought, let me just do a couple of videos here and there on Instagram and just tell a few people about it. Honestly, I made the first few videos for my friends, who have been asking me questions for years. I think the first eight videos were just strictly from my friends. So then when I decided to expand @youseelogic and make an effort to put it out there, which I didn’t decide to do until mid-June. That was when I was like ‘wow I’m going to start sharing this more!’ And my colleagues have been super, super generous, super accommodating and they want me to teach them and they want me to put out education for them so they can address this need with their patients. It’s really exciting. It’s a really exciting time.”

M.C.: “Yeah because then… I mean in the medical field, across all these different disciplines or sub-disciplines there is just a marked gap in terms of sex education and continuing sexual health education. There’s so much specialization that happens, certainly in our country in terms of healthcare. And you know it’s like ‘oh starting to go in that sex direction, we need to refer out!’ Or give the patient some other version of what could be wrong with them or what remedy can support them that doesn’t have to do with sex. So you’re really filling the gap there too. So that’s exciting. That’s exciting that you get to teach your colleagues.”

U.O.: “Yes, yes, and hopefully I’ll get these education pieces out for them soon. Just doing it one day at a time, you know?”

M.C.: “You are just one person right, at the end of the day. And the other thing before we fully wrap up… What advice do you have for those folx about how they can strengthen the pelvic floor?”

U.O.: “So here’s what I’m going to tell everyone. Not everyone should be doing Kegel exercises or strengthening their pelvic floor, and not everyone should be doing pelvic floor relaxation exercises. You need to know where you stand. So like all of us doing any type of sex education or counseling, we need to know where our biases stand and we need to know where we first live in our own space before we can start addressing other people’s needs. So what I would suggest for people is that if you have the opportunity or the ability to have your pelvic floor assessed by your healthcare provider, like a midwife, urologist, physician- have them assess your pelvic floor and say ‘am I doing this right?’ Because that is going to be the best way to know if you’re doing it correctly. Because what you want to be feeling is you want to feel your pelvic floor contract around your finger, wherever you insert that -into your vagina or your anus- you want to feel it squeeze your finger and if you’re sitting up it is almost like you’re lifting your finger towards your head, right? And you need to not be moving any other part of your body. So if you’re doing a Kegel it should just look like you’re staring into space. You shouldn’t be moving your shoulders, you shouldn’t be holding your breath, you shouldn’t be arching your back, you shouldn’t be squeezing your butt cheeks. You should be isolating only your pelvic floor muscles, between the legs. And you should be able to fully relax. The relaxation is just as important as the contraction, so if you have a history of pain or difficulty with constant constipation or emptying your bladder you should not do Kegel exercises without supervision. That would be my recommendation.”

M.C.: “That’s good to know because I feel like there’s so much out there about Kegel exercises, that I don’t know if that’s always what people understand in terms of having that kind of support through that process.”

U.O.: “Yeah it’s very complicated. When I say everything is connected, everything truly is connected. So if you have issues with your back or with your hips, I recommend that you see a pelvic health physical therapist if you can. If you don’t have access to one, what I would suggest is go ahead and use your finger or a dildo or if your partner has a penis, using that to kind of help assess your pelvic floor. And like I said you’re going to squeeze and lift up from the pelvic floor and then release.”

M.C.: “You heard it here folx, so that’s your homework assignment! So what are some big projects you have going on for 2018?”

U.O.: “My primary project right now is that I’m working on a collaboration with Icon Underwear and the National Health Service in the United Kingdom about sexuality education. I also will be putting out a YouTube series hopefully in the summertime but with a different perspective, less “Bourbon Tales,” more documentary-style sexual interviewing with different people in different relationship structures, different backgrounds, different educations, and gender identities. So that’s what’s up the chain…”

M.C.: “Wow that’s awesome!”

U.O.: “And just building my private practice and helping as many of my colleagues as I can to move forward. Do more clinical research, now that I’m a Professor it’s important for me to do research with what I do, and I want to make sure I get some publications under my belt this year, so that’s my goal!”

M.C.: “Absolutely, absolutely. How can people connect with you? How can people find you?”

U.O.: “You can find me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram @Youseelogic or you can find me on my website www.youseelogic.com. You can also email me at info@youseelogic.com. I forgot to mention this but I’m also a brand ambassador for Lifestyle Condoms so if you go on their website and just type in UC or Dr. Ossai, you will see several videos on their YouTube channel, as well as on their website, and I’ve written blogs for them too. So hopefully you guys can reach me on one of those avenues. Then just feel free to shoot me a DM or to email to say hi or post a question for Bourbon Tales.”

M.C.: “Yeah and I think I also saw you this past Tuesday night doing something… are you going to continue doing that…?”

U.O.: “Oh yeah, yeah… oh my God I forgot about that!” (laughs)

M.C.: “Yeah UC keep up with what you’re doing!”

U.O.:  “Right? There are so many things… I’m there and I’m doing it and then I got to move on to the next thing. Yes, yes oh yes. I am a pleasure professional for O.School. Which is an amazing organization that’s changing the game for sex education, and I have a weekly show that I live stream, called “The Pelvic Hour with Doctor UC” and we talk about the pelvic floor, we talk about pleasure, we talk about anything that has to do with the pelvis and even unrelated. So please, please join me on my show. I love it. It’s super fun! I don’t even feel like it’s work. It’s me just sitting there drinking bourbon and talking about the pelvis.”

M.C.: “It’s so fun. It’s so informative and again you’re so relatable and knowledgeable. I mean this has been super informative. I feel like we could certainly go on and on. Thank you so much for doing what you do in both the medical realm and also in terms of connecting with folx about their sexual health and keeping it grown and sexy!”

U.O.: “My pleasure! It was wonderful chatting with you, and I wish you the best in 2018!”

M.C.: “Thank you so much. We will continue to bring information and content that supports sexual health and families, so thank you for being a part of that mission.”

U.O.: “My pleasure!”

M.C.: “Big thanks to UC for demystifying the connection between the pelvis and sexual health. Links to her contact info can be found in the Show Notes, so be sure to connect and support. If you like this episode of the podcast, please leave a review on iTunes or Google Play, so more people can find us. And you can always visit us at our website www.sexpositivefamilies.com. There you can shop sex-positive swag in our online store, connect with us across our social media platforms and join our Facebook community and learn more about resources to help support sexual health in your family. Until next time I’m Melissa Carnagey, thank you for supporting content that strengthens sexual health talks and families.

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